#Dantime (23 November)


danosphere , aka Dan Wasyluk, is founding member of the Syscoin Platform and the CEO of Blockchain Foundry. Blockchain Foundry is persuing different ways of bringing value to any kind of business sector out there by using the Syscoin blockchain.

Due to the limitations of Slack, the AMA's will be stored here for further reference and reading.

danosphere [10:00 PM]
going to be just about 10min late here sry!

blgh [10:07 PM]
Hi @danosphere! A while ago we were talking about Wholefoods. You guys where working on some plans to get a sales person inside there. How foes this process evolved and can you share some things about this :)?

victoratila [10:09 PM]
Hey Dan! Hope you could rest on your holidays! Aren't you guys sharing the blog post today?

bstr156 [10:13 PM]
Welcome back Dan!

danosphere [10:15 PM]
:wave: ok im back!
thanks everyone, taking a break was nice heh its been nonstop all year and here we are again
wish those charts looked better but we've seen this pattern many many times now
@blgh I don't have any updates on that front even though I do feel its a valuable use case, we are working towards a strong focus on the logistics space and specifically some products that may cater to that use case but its not mature enough to sell into those orgs yet
they are looking for products they can use now, its hard to sell them on a 'pay and we'll build it and then you'll see its worth it' kinda vision (but we have tried this)
I'm not sure if we are sharing a blog post today? The marketing gurus would know more about that, been a bit tied up since getting back lots to catchup on
super stoked to see blockchainswaps.org too :thumbsup: bravo to the dev there I think it was @Curious Cosmos :clap: :clap:

bstr156 [10:22 PM]
Any updates on Syscoin Foundation?

danosphere [10:23 PM]
yep we are in the process of setting it up still, its being setup outside jurisdictions that we have any residence in so it takes time and is being facilitated by SYS community in those jurisdictions (edited)

aegisker [10:27 PM]
Yeah, there was this tweet with blurred screenshot yesterday, saying something about more news today. https://mobile.twitter.com/syscoin/status/1065738024649150465 (edited)

keyare [10:28 PM]
Just ran into a glitch with that.

aegisker [10:28 PM]

oll [10:30 PM]
Syscoin foundation going to be based in the nethelands?

danosphere [10:31 PM]
^^yessir netherlands
we're getting an address there for it and all that jazz
and yep that's still coming jsut slight delay @aegisker, thanks @keyare for reminding me about that

herbiefast [10:32 PM]
Hi Dan, can you explain Tamarin a bit more?

danosphere [10:33 PM]
Hey Herbie! yep Tamarin is a private layer2 solution that can interact with permissionless blockchains

aegisker [10:33 PM]

danosphere [10:33 PM]
so for example if you have a consortium of business users that want contracts to only be visible to that group, it enables that while still ledgering the state of those contracts on a public chain
public actors can't derive much of anything from the hashed state, so its secure in that respect but it allows the execution to be tied back and rooted to a publicly-driven distributed chain
so you don't run the risk of actors in the network being able to modify the history of the state

aegisker [10:34 PM]
But transactions made in this contract are public?

danosphere [10:34 PM]
and you get security (privacy) for the contracts themself
the transactions are stored in the private layer 2 chain
its similar to a counterparty implementation where the counterparty side of it is permissioned
and the bitcoin side of it is permissionless
whereas in the counterparty ppl know today both layers are permissionless, its just a variant of the model for the use cases that clients are asking us for

aegisker [10:36 PM]
Where is layer 2 data stored? Hashed on main chain? What about contract?

herbiefast [10:37 PM]
^yes this

danosphere [10:38 PM]
layer 2 data is hashed on the main chain, actual contract state and bytecode are on the layer2 level
we haven't gotten into an implementation where the client needs it just get so its kinda sitting in a shelved and waiting state atm
we had already developed it to a certain level internally so its a tool in our toolbelts now

herbiefast [10:39 PM]
Will this be possible together with sys4? Or already sys3?

aegisker [10:39 PM]
Who takes care of layer 2 execution? Client must setup own layer2 network?

danosphere [10:39 PM]
sys3 or 4 could run it, you could also set it up to run against most other blockchains too but we did focus on making the intiial cut sys3 compatible
so other chains would take more config work
and the permissioned group takes care of running the layer2 chain- so yes they would run a private network of nodes just for layer 2
those nodes would have layer 1 + layer 2 since they need to write to the public chain
and part of the tamarin packaging is providing it as like a docker image or something of that nature where they just deploy it to their IT infrastructure

aegisker [10:41 PM]
Can you give practical use case and infrastructure example? (edited)

danosphere [10:42 PM]
sure so i am shipping melons between 3 diff actors, and as part of a shipment a certain amount of tokens used to track IOUs on the layer 2 chain should be burned
the 3 actors running that contract would be on their own layer 2 network without exposing the contract to the world but being able to see it between each other
and the execution state of that contract is then ledgered to a public chain, backed by more actors making it more fraud resistent and less open to 2 of 3 colluding and changing history
so if actors collude and try to change the layer2 history, there is a backup that can't be influence that can then be used to prove collusion as there will be a state mismatch there
and also these actors dont risk publicizing the nature or details of their inter-org contract
these people don't want you to see all that
if you aren't in the consortium

aegisker [10:46 PM]
This is awsome. Bcf provides software for layer2 nodes? Will it be open source (if even possible)?

danosphere [10:46 PM]
probably won't be open source in the near term but yeah we would provide it as a docker image, but we wouldn't actually run a node ourselves
cause you could have a bunch of disparate networks running this approach- a layer 2 for melons, a layer 2 for remittences, a layer 2 for XYZ
the actors involved there would run the nodes, but we would certianly help get them up and running within their own env

aegisker [10:48 PM]
How will layer2 network be protected against me adding a node?

danosphere [10:48 PM]
its a valuable use case esp in a world where we're learning some of this stuff just 'cant be public' but there is still value in teh immutability and auditability of the contracts within a small group
you aren't permissioned, so there is a whitelist of actors who can connect to it and there may be further roles defined within the contracts themselves

herbiefast [10:48 PM]
Lots of usecases for this. But from your view: Why would a consortium choose for this, instead of hyperledger for example?

danosphere [10:51 PM]
i dont know enough about how hyperledger enforces immutability but it would be for cases where hyperledger doesnt adequately insulate from collusion between actors or where the org wants to have their history backed by a public chain
having it backed by a public chain allows for there to be no real variable in respect to 'how many actors are in the consortium'

herbiefast [10:51 PM]
Is it pure the independent anchoring on a public chain? Or ah :grinning: ^

danosphere [10:51 PM]
but I do have things to learn in respect to hyperledger so its hard to compare to that atm

herbiefast [10:52 PM]
Me too :grin:, but what your saying sounds logic to me

danosphere [10:53 PM]
Yeah HFL is definitely getting a lot of traction in the space so Tamarin is kinda a hybrid spin on that

herbiefast [10:54 PM]
And a good one I think

danosphere [10:54 PM]
yeah and it helped us in developing our thinking around sys4 as well, its kinda a byproduct of the smart contract research we were doing towards that

herbiefast [10:54 PM]
I think Stratis is also working a such a hybrid

danosphere [10:55 PM]
we started discussing how these ppl who want smart contracts but dont want them public and dont wanna worry about tokens would accomplish it
and the idea is that there is still a fee to ledger onto the main chain but its masked as part of the monthly SaaS fee for the software
so we deal with those small amount, but the majority of the cost of execution and privacy are handled on layer 2 and in turn, reduce the costs and risk for the client
we've been on these calls where we pitched ETH for that case but there was no appetite for a public contract or holding ETH tokens to execute it etc

herbiefast [10:57 PM]
Yeah number of transactions much be crazy if you create a lot of costs

danosphere [10:57 PM]
yeah exactly, and their is a fear of holding tokens to be frank
which i understand from a biz perspective
fk if you'd stocked up 10 days ago your biz reserves for contract execution would be down 30%, there isnt an appetite for that kinda risk

aegisker [10:58 PM]
Great answers, thanks

danosphere [10:58 PM]
np good questions! :slightly_smiling_face:

herbiefast [10:58 PM]
Indeed, parties in my environment are also hasitant to use eth because of costs

mitsu [10:58 PM]
give us some hope dude :white_frowning_face:

danosphere [10:59 PM]
can totally understand that, its hard to budget how much $$ you need for deterministic cost on execution
which is kinda important in running a biz
oh the whole market will bounce back, it just takes time
imo - ive seen at least 2 of these cycles in my bitcorn life
they are always painful heh, but they do turn around

herbiefast [11:00 PM]
Yeah and also scalability is an issue. Think about the Kitties...

aegisker [11:00 PM]
Are there any plans for privacy features on public chain? (edited)

herbiefast [11:01 PM]
I think the combination of hybrid (permissionless/permissioned), low transaction costs, smart contract and TPS (waiting on Whiteblock) will be massive for sys

danosphere [11:02 PM]
hey im sorry guys i am running into a call here, this could take up 60min
but to answer your question i dont think there are a lot of plans for privacy features on public chains alone

herbiefast [11:02 PM]
Thanks Dan!

danosphere [11:02 PM]
its a challenge even for like private txs much less the whole smart contract execution part

aegisker [11:02 PM]

danosphere [11:02 PM]
thanks! sry to run like this! Appreciate you guys stopping by and asking good questions :thumbsup:
hope ppl have a good weekend!

herbiefast [11:03 PM]
You too!

danosphere [11:03 PM]
Thanks! :wave:

alternating [11:08 PM]
hi dan,
We have some great #Syscoin development-related #News coming!
Stay Tuned tomorrow, for a Blog post with all the details.
$SYS #Roadmap #Masternodes #Crypto #CryptoCurrency #RT https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DspDFd0UwAEt9gc.jpg
TwitterNov 22nd
whats the big reveal?

johnp [11:08 PM]
See #announcements

alternating [11:08 PM]


November 23, 2018

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